Curse

Numa Pompilius · Nov 09, 2008, 12:47 PM // 12:47

@Test me:

Do what everyone else who find it diffuclit or tedious to read skill descriptions and figure out a skill combination for themselves do: get your build here.

Edit: Also, in-game money aren't real, and buy you nothing but vanity crap. HTH.

Dark Dragon · Nov 09, 2008, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test Me

Take any PvE area as it is today and you will find out that it was probably never designed or fine tuned with a certain set of player builds in mind. They say the build is most important in guild wars, they why are they not designing content with a given team build in mind?

because then if you are not one of the required classes then you would simply be left out, how would that be helpful in any way?? think about mesmers in the current game in the PvE environment.

but with your suggestion this problem would be made worse when they tell you which classes to take if you want to succeed. At least in the current game any class can make it through the game as not 1 class is severely penalized in any area (although this is untrue in certain elite areas).

Tom Swift · Nov 09, 2008, 01:05 PM // 13:05

lol at most of the replies here

The OP is correct in many ways.

ANet dug themselves into a hole by the way they designed the skills in the game. The original game had hundreds of skills and each expansion added hundreds more. Each huge set of new skills also made earlier areas of the game "unbalanced" because they had never been designed to cope with the new skills.

The logical result, which should have been very predictable, is a constant nerfing/buffing of skills to correct and "balance" a game that has been basically static as far as content for well over a year now. Balance should have been achieved long ago but because of the overwhelming number of skills it never will be. They will still be balancing the day before they turn off the servers as far as anyone can tell.

Prima never produced a guide for Nightfall or Eye of the North for a very simple reason. By the time the the guides for the first two chapters were printed, the skills had already changed making the majority of the guide useless. For the same reason ANet itself has never produced anything beyond a bare bones and essentially useless manual - leaving the players with only "unofficial" sources of information such as wiki and guru.

Farming is also an indirect result of this weakness. Rather than create new challenges (which they could not do since they are spending their time constantly balancing the game) they added more and more title grind. The result was that players are moved into farm-like behavior. (not necessarily farming itself but playing the same content over and over again to achieve the titles)

The lack of people playing together is also a result of this flawed design. It has nothing to do with heroes or consumables. It is a result of the game being title oriented now rather than content oriented. It is fun to play with others when you are "discovering" the game together. And people do join together when something new comes up (such as Mox) But when you are at the point that you are repeating content in order to achieve a "title" other people are a liability. you can't risk them making a mistake and forcing you to do it all again.

Frankly, GW2 was needed not so much because the game mechanics needed changed (though that certainly was true) but because the game was at the point of total nuclear skill melt down. It simply could not take the infusion of hundreds of new skills that would be expected in another chapter.

The OP is absolutely correct - the constant skill changing is a severe liability in this game. But, unfortunately, a necessary one because of the bloated nature of the game itself.

Test Me · Nov 09, 2008, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Dragon

because then if you are not one of the required classes then you would simply be left out, how would that be helpful in any way?? think about mesmers in the current game in the PvE environment.

I did say in OP design it with a build for each class in mind and I still believe that is doable. If a class is so fundamentally broken that it doesn't even have a purpose for all the areas of the game, then I would say that spots a different issue. And designing content for certain skill sets for all classes is quite a good way to figure if there are such problems with different classes.

That's why I even went as far as saying that they should include a decent (notice the use of decent) build for each area/mission like part of a game manual. That may be taking things too far, but still...

DoomFrost · Nov 09, 2008, 01:12 PM // 13:12

These complaint threads are more entertaining than the game itself. I say Anet should continue nerfing the game, maybe every skill at once. That way there will be an over abundance of complaint threads which will keep us thoroughly entertained until Guild Wars 2 is released.

the Puppeteer · Nov 09, 2008, 01:27 PM // 13:27

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Help

Quote:

Recently Encountered Skills contains links to recently encountered skills. This includes skills from foes, too.

There you go - enjoy

the savage nornbear · Nov 09, 2008, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Read the game updates. It's as simple as that. Most builds that I use have been fine. Maybe ten skills a month are changed (if we're lucky). It's really not that hard to log onto wiki and check the update page before you sign on.

Shayne Hawke · Nov 09, 2008, 01:53 PM // 13:53

If you can't put the time in to learn how to PvP well and stay up-to-date with skill balances, I suggest you not PvP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test Me

That's why I even went as far as saying that they should include a decent (notice the use of decent) build for each area/mission like part of a game manual. That may be taking things too far, but still.

I don't think I could ever support ANet making cookie cutter builds for every area so that all professions have some "equal" level of functionality.

Dawn Angelheart · Nov 09, 2008, 02:40 PM // 14:40

The BalanceHas To Happen. Thats How It Is.
People exploit Over Powerd Skills. They Have To Control That. considering Alot OF The Skills are Copys Of Others.. its Not THAT bad.. honestly.
Learn The Icons. If you Have Been PLaying Alsong As You Say.. Then It Cant Be Hard. Also. For Less Reading Use Concise It Helps.

Cale Roughstar · Nov 09, 2008, 03:16 PM // 15:16

@ Dawn, I Heard That Typing Sentances With All Capital Letters To Start Wuz Good! (Sorry, I just woke up, and that just seems really, really funny right now)

Anyways, @ OP, you raise a few good points (like how if a class is not useful in all areas of the game, then there is a serious problem) which I totally agree with. Then you come out with a few doozies such as following up your great point with

Quote:

That's why I even went as far as saying that they should include a decent (notice the use of decent) build for each area/mission like part of a game manual.

It is not Anet's job to hold our hands as we cautiously pick our way through the big and frightening world of Guild Wars.

And then, my absolute favourite,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test Me

If this really is how the core of the game should be, then leave it as that but:
- give me the option to create level 20 PvE toons
- give me the option to load equipment templates in PvE based on what I've unlocked, and even elite armors could be unlocked for all my other toons once I buy the first set
- give me the option to travel any place on the map I have already unlocked on another toon

And then we're fair.

You lose pretty much all credibility when you throw something like that out there. Reading between the lines that just says "I can't be assed to actually play the game, just give me all my elite armour NOW!".

Quote:

Oh and farming, yeah. I really don't get why they don't offer say 20k for completing a 3h HM dungeon run. Is that such a horrible thing to do? I guess so, it would encourage people to play the game instead of farming it.

Even with a 20k reward it would be under the farming income had people farm the whole 3h, but at least playing the game would be a viable option to farming.

Yet another example of how you wish for your GW experience to be handed to you on a silver platter. Your heart is in the right place, asking for more stable skills/balance, and a better incentives for playing vs. farming, but you absolutely lose all momentum/credibility/respect/srs bsns in the thread when you ask to be babied as much as you have.

Alleji · Nov 09, 2008, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Um... obviously you need to know the skills if you're gonna be any good. It's not as daunting as you think, because I'd say 50% of the skills never get used, and if they are, you can be sure it's a crappy skill and doesn't do anything threatening. Out of the remaining 50%, probably half are rarely used and the other half you see all the time.

Also, you don't need to learn the exact wording. For example, I don't remember what the hell "doom" does (one of the 50% that are never used), but I saw a rit in AB use it. All I remember is that it's a damage skill. So I savage shot it and it doesn't do damage plus whatever else it would have done.

That makes learning easier, doesn't it?

But really, you can't expect to be on the same level as "players who play 8h a day" regardless of what you do.

englitdaudelin · Nov 09, 2008, 04:24 PM // 16:24

I'm going to take the OP at face value and assume he/she wants some challenge and wants to play with some builds, but is annoyed by
a)the ease with which one or two builds can clear large swaths of the game, and
b) the number of skills out there.

There isn't much to do about b) except...make a bunch of characters of all classes. Spend the next year or so playing them. Or, change your secondary. Unlock all the skills you can, including elites. Repeat steps one and two. Spend your weekends doing this. Once this is done...

..hard mode. Your line about "designing an area that needs a certain build..." shouts hard mode.

Now, let's not get all "hard mode's not that hard" here. There are team builds--even seemingly reasonable ones--that will fail hard mode. A group of popups, a bad pull, a boss when you've got some DP, all of these can cause a hard mode fail. Seemingly rational hero and hench builds will wipe out if you don't find some way to deal with what you encounter. I've found a mesmer to be nearly indispensable in HM--and I've also walked out with a bad mesmer build and found the mesmer flat-out useless.

So, if you're serious about learning the skills and using the skills to clear areas, then..try that.

It certainly doesn't fix the central problems of the game, as both the OP and Tom Swift identified--the power creep of skills, the introduction of cons sets, and the use of PvE skills--but, if you feel like being a purist, it comes close.

The skill list can be intimidating..but I've actually found it -- or rather, the learning of it--to be one of the most rewarding parts of the game. Getting skills to work together, seeing damage pile up, or watching casters go through a bar getting interrupted the whole time...that's a small joy left in a game where a lot of small joys have disappeared.

moko · Nov 09, 2008, 04:28 PM // 16:28

OP, play chess.

Test Me · Nov 09, 2008, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cale Roughstar

You lose pretty much all credibility when you throw something like that out there. Reading between the lines that just says "I can't be assed to actually play the game, just give me all my elite armour NOW!".

What i've said there, is to me, the counter-balance equivalent to the godly powers of ANet to change the rules of the game every day they wish. If they do have this need to nerf all day, then give me the liberty to quickly adapt to any possible nerf they might do. And that means unlocking armor and weapons and map locations. Exactly what you can do in PvP, you should be able to do in PvE if you are expected to play with whatever nerf du jour they throw at you.

Otherwise working hard on leveling up a toon of another profession than what you played to get some advantage your current profession does not give you AND buying all the equipment needed AND getting the build (elite caps and all) can, and happened to me several times to present... can be just wasted time cause they just decide to nerf what you were going for. Yay!

Anyway, the core problem is not that and I was just being sarcastic. But still, if they want to keep their silly nerfs give me the freedom to adapt to them as quickly as they nerf it. Is seems only natural.

Otherwise what's the real point of all these nerfs? Really? Would the world go down and no one would be playing anymore if they hadn't nerf Ursan for example? No, quite the contrary, probably people left *because* they nerfed it. I don't really see any point in all this added complexity on top of an already far too complex skill system: the monthly nerf. (PS I don't really care about ursan, cryway, sabway past, present or future nerfs in particular, it's just trying to fix a big GW problem with the wrong tools).

And whatever they do, they will never nerf it right, something else will always come along. So just let the people play this game and give me (and others like me) a rest. So I don't have to be in a continuous catch up phase. And invest the energy they invest in nerfing skills today in coming up with new content.

Now there is a thought. And I am repeating myself far too many times now.

wind fire and ice · Nov 09, 2008, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Get a better memory or quit GW,prety simple.

Trub · Nov 09, 2008, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Adapt, encounter, overcome.
The game wouldn't be challenging if you could just log in and push god mode everytime.
You haven't mentioned your start date with GW, nor the campaigns you own....
But assuming by your forum user creation date: Sept. 2008
You have alot of wiki reading to do.
Most of the fun had in GW is the challenge of countering other builds.
So, enjoy the changes!!

Cale Roughstar · Nov 09, 2008, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test Me

If they do have this need to nerf all day, then give me the liberty to quickly adapt to any possible nerf they might do. And that means unlocking armor and weapons and map locations.

Wut?

Let me get this straight... you are saying... that because they nerf skills... you should be able to have FoW on all your toons after you bought one... ooohhh, and you should have voltaics for all your toons because you bought one...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test Me

Exactly what you can do in PvP, you should be able to do in PvE if you are expected to play with whatever nerf du jour they throw at you.

LOL!

Dude, you sound as if a few skill nerfs are hurting your ability to PvE. Cry more please.

Your main point about how multiple nerfs are bad is still a good point. Just stop adding in this crap about how a few nerfs entitles you to perfect PvE characters right off the bat.

Rhamia Darigaz · Nov 09, 2008, 07:00 PM // 19:00

what do you call a player who wants the game to be easier without putting in the time to get better?
i can't seem to think of the word...

dilan155 · Nov 09, 2008, 07:18 PM // 19:18

a-net nerfing and farming is like a cat and a mouse, we make a new build to farm something a-net nerfs it, we make a new one a-net nerfs it so and so forth. what they need to do is make rewards for actually playing the game better than those of farming. do you really come play a game so you can farm? or do you come and play because you would like to play that game?

freakdaddy · Nov 09, 2008, 08:05 PM // 20:05

what gets me is the fact that most of you people instead of actually giving an answer to the OP you give sarcasm and grief...WTF. it's like 'Damn i am so mad at mommy and daddy for not giving me more, but i have so many insecurities about my nerdy appearance...ahhh i know i will bash people on the internet to build up my confidence!!!'

and another thing all this "ANET has to work on GW2 stop crying about new content and leave them alone!!!" F*** GW2 i have spent over 150 dollars on GW1 either leave the skills alone (never got it right, never gonna get it right.) or give new content as the OP suggested.